AS APPROVED at the Competition Committee Meeting -- January 15, 2006
All motions passed by the Competition Committee are recommendations to the PVS Board of Directors.




PVS AUTUMN COMPETITION COMMITTEE
MEETING MINUTES
September 25, 2005 - 5:00pm
River Falls
Potomac, MD

Attendees -- Greg York, Chair; Jim Garner, PVS, John Hirschmann, PVS; Don Riedlinger, PVS Bill Stephens, PVS, Ward Foley, AAC: Evan Stiles, AAC; Gian Paligano, ASA; Robert Walker, ASA; Eric Moore, AST; Shawn Fisher, BWST; Kerry Ellett, CUBU; Mark Faherty, CUBU; Pete Morgan, CUBU; Renid DelRosaio, DCRP; Manga Dalizu, FAST, Mike Kraeuter, FISH; Kerstin Severin, HACC;, Dan Jacobs, MACH: Paris Jacobs, MACH; Noah Rucker, MAKO; Bill Marlin, PM; Dave Kraft, RMSC; Victor Abrahamain, SDS; Shelly Gisher, YORK.

Call to Order -- The meeting was called to order by Competition Committee Chairman, Greg York at 5:11 pm at River Falls in Potomac, Maryland.

Agenda -- An agenda for use at the meeting was provided - one change agreed to was having reports from convention earlier in the agenda.

Approval of Minutes: -- The minutes of the May 15, 2005 Competition Committee meeting were unanimously approved as submitted. They had been posted on the pvswim.org website and copies were available at the meeting for review.

PVS Flash Mail -- Hirschmann asked that those in attendance make people who have aol accounts aware that the service is normally now treating PVS Flash Mail as "spam" and returning it as undeliverable. To receive the mail, they need to adjust their "spam" control or mail preferences to indicate they want to receive mail from pvswim2.org and hirschj@erols.com

Selection of Outstanding Age Group 2004-05 Athletes -- Garner advised he believed he had lost some of applications for this selection that had been received prior to September 15th, so it was agreed it was not possible to conduct the elections at today's meeting as would normally occur. Given these circumstances, it was agreed that Jim would post the list of current nominations he knows about and then invite clubs to resubmit nominations they had submitted prior to September 15th. It also agreed that only those in attendance at his competition committee would be eligible to vote with only one vote per club permitted.

Once the list is established - all information about the athletes nominated would be provided on the web at an unpublicized location for those eligible to vote. Those eligible to vote would be given a limited amount of time to do after which the results would be announced.

Questions were raised whether the process should be changed. There was however agreement it should not be changed for this year since the election is already in process.

It was suggested that that Board (or people selected by the Board) select the nominees to be voted upon. Possible formulas for identifying the nominees were also proposed.

It was also agreed that Bill Marlin and Dan Jacobs as the Coaches representatives receive suggestion as to how the nomination process might be modified.

Distance Winners -- Hirschmann reviewed list of distance swimmers that appeared to be entitled to the award based on their performance during the 2004-05 season. This information had been distributed earlier via FLASH MAIL

The information he provided was as follows:

  • Men's 1500
    Thomas M Koucheravy SDS 15:38.14 2005 Conoco-Phillips Nationals 08/03/2005
  • Men's 1650
    Andrew S Finelli CUBU 15:32.36 2004 PVS Tom Dolan Invitational 12/09/2004
  • Women's 800
    Kate M Ziegler FISH 8:25.31 2005 FINA World Championships 07/24/2005
  • Women's 1000
    Kate M Ziegler FISH 9:25.51 2005 Speedo Championship Series 03/17/2005 (split from 1650)
  • Last year it was decided to also make an additional award starting this year to the fastest 18/U if the primary winner was older.

    That applies this year to the Men's 1500
    The 18/U winner in Men's 1500 is
    Hugh A Anderson FISH 16:01.93 2005 Grand Prix Series (Stanford) 05/20/2005

    It was agreed that if no concerns were raised within the next week - these individuals will be announced as being the winners.

    Long Course Schedule - PVS Sponsored Meets -- Hirschmann briefed plans for the 2006 LC schedule of PVS sponsored meets. He noted that Competition normally would have endorsed this schedule the past May - but given the then on-going discussions with VSI to see if a joint PVS-VSI LC championship could be scheduled, it was agreed to defer setting the schedule at that time. However, since pool arrangements might not be able to be deferred until September, Hirschmann was also authorized to proceed with the scheduling if he determined it would be prudent to do so. During the summer, it became clear a joint LC championship meet with VSI was not going to occur in 2006 (Riedlinger will brief this in more detail later in the meeting.)

    Hirschmann had also been requested at the May meeting to explore the feasibility of moving the annual PVS Distance Meet from Memorial Day weekend to another weekend. This has been done. Except for the PVS Distance Meet, there are no changes from the 2005 LC schedule. He reported the following meets have been scheduled:

  • PVS Senior/Age Group LC I - Sunday, June 11, 2006 at Lee District and TBD
  • PVS LC Distance Meet Saturday afternoon June 17 and Sunday morning June 18 at TBD
  • PVS Senior/Age Group LC II - Sunday, June 25, 2006 at Lee District and TBD
  • PVS Senior LC Champs - July 13-16, 2006 at UMD
  • PVS Junior LC Champs - July 13-16, 2006 at UMD
  • PVS 14/U LC Age Group Champs - July 20-23, 2006 at GMU/Fairfax
  • There was no additional discussion of the matter.

    Don Riedlinger noted the LSC had received a limited number of concerns regarding the fact that two of the PVS LC meets were conducted only on Sunday. This is done because so many of our swimmers compete in summer league on Saturday. He asked for suggestions or observations. It was noted that PVS offers LC meets earlier in the LC season (before summer league starts) on Friday and Saturday as well as Sunday, swimmers can compete in meets held by other LSC's, PVS clubs could request sanctions for meets on other days of the week, and that PVS could relax its non-conforming entry time requirements for entry into its LC Championship meets.

    Club Sponsored Meets -- Hirschmann then sought and accepted for discussion two bids for January -April 2006 timeframe. Two bids had been submitted just prior to the meeting. They are:

  • Machine LC Classic - April 22-23, 2006 at GMU/Fairfax - this would be a new meet -- it was described as a 9/Over Meet with QT's at about the A level.
  • Ist Service Bank Just Swim Again LC Derby - April 29-30, 2006 at GMU/Fairfax - this would be similar to the meet held last year but it would be changed from a 2 day meet to a 2 day meet.
  • The Competition Committee voted to endorse sanctioning of these two meets to the PVS Board.

    Competition also agreed to initially accept bids for club sponsored meets in May -Aug 2006 timeframe at the January 2006 Competition Committee meeting

    Hirschmann also noted that PVS's P&P should probably be changed to conform with current practice and recognize that we normally do PVS sponsored SC meet scheduling in September for the following year and do the PVS sponsored LC scheduling in May. If so, we should probably also amend P&P to allow club meets during the following May-September timeframe starting in September.

    Eastern Zone Meet Developments -- Competition was also advised that the Eastern Zone Southern Sectional meet will be at the Naval Academy and will be hosted by NAAC on March 16-19, 2006. The Eastern Zone SC Age Group Championship Meet had previously been awarded by the Zone during the summer to Metropolitan Swimming and will be held March 30-April 1, 2006.

    Hirschmann also indicated the Order of Events and Qualifying Times for Eastern Zone Spring SC Sectionals are not expected to change from 2005 to 2006.

    He also advised that the zone agreed to make the summer LC Super Sectional meet into a full 4 day meet. This will start in the summer 2006 since the previously selected meet host has agreed to host a full 4-day meet.

    Finally, the zone clarified that a 13/Over swimmer who has attended (or has qualified in an individual event) at any of these meets may not attend zones -- USA Swimming Juniors, USA Swimming Spring Championships (using the 18/U qualifying times), US Open, USA Swimming Nationals, or a Trials Class Meet.

    2006-07 Short Course PVS Sponsored Meet Schedule Season --.

    Hirschmann provided a calendar of already scheduled USA Swimming and Eastern Zone meets during this timeframe. He made a motion (which was seconded) for purpose of starting discussion that PVS sponsored meets be on the same weekends as they are planned during the 2005-06 short course season. That would make the dates as follows:

  • PVS October Open Meet - October 13-15, 2006
  • PVS November Open Meet - November 10-12, 2006
  • PVS January Distance Meet - January 6-7, 2007
  • PVS January Open Meet - January 20-21, 2007
  • PVS February Distance Meet - February 18-19, 2007
  • PVS Senior SC Championships - March 8-11, 2007
  • PVS Age Group SC Championship -- March 15-18, 2007
  • There was no discussion regarding changing the dates of the PVS October, November or January Open Meets or the PVS January or February Distance Meets.

    There was however discussion on the best weekend to have the PVS Age Group SC Championship Meet and whether it would be better held one weekend earlier. There was considerable discussion on the matter. It was acknowledged it is planned to be one weekend later in 2005-06 than it was in 2004-05 - this shift was made to allow for better placing of PVS Senior Championship Meet between the end of the high school championship season (the latest meet being Metro's) and when the EZ Southern Sectionals and NCSA Juniors were being held or expected to be held.

    Dave Kraft made a motion to amend the proposed PVS SC schedule (which was seconded) to have the PVS SC Age Group Championship one week earlier in 2007 and to then have the PVS Senior SC Championship also be one week earlier. This would be the former meet on March 8-11, 2007 and the later meet on March 1-4, 2007.

    It was clarified that Metro's have historically ended on the last Saturday in February - in 2007 this would be February 25, 2007. It was noted that changes in the public Maryland HS championships were under discussion and that VA was taking two weeks between regions and states this year - though it will still be held before Metros.

    The possibility of having a Junior Championship Meet held between prelims and finals of PVS Senior SC Championships was raised and discussed. It was agreed it was probably feasible from a pool rental point of view. No action was taken on this item.

    It was also noted that in 2006, the 14/U Champs would end 2-3 days prior to when zone entries would be do, this will significantly compress the time PVS will have available to prepare its entries.

    There was further discussion of the amendment after which the amendment was adopted 3-1

    The motion as amended to adopt the amended 2006-07 PVS sponsored short course schedule was then passed by voice vote.

    Election of PVS Eastern Zone 2006 SC Coaches -- It was announced that Mark Faherty and Kevin Ahearn were running for Head Coach, Noah Rucker and Mike Kraeuter for Assistant Head Coach.

    A question was asked whether the election for Head Coach should be conducted first so the defeated candidate could be considered for Assistant Head Coach. One candidate for Head Coach indicated he did not wish to run for Assistant Head Coach if he was defeated. Accordingly, the two elections were held concurrently.

    Elections were held by paper ballot. It was announced that Mark Faherty was elected as Head Coach and Mike Kraeuter as Assistant Head Coach.

    A motion made, seconded and approved to destroy the ballots.

    Other Meet Requests/Actions -- It was determined a representative from DCPR was present. He was not however prepared to address whether that club was still interested in hosting a site of the PVS November Open at PGS&LC. - they had bid in late June but had not responded to requests for additional information about the team's capability to host the meet.

    Competition was also informed that DCPR had recently sought authorization to hold the Kaiser-Permanente Open Swim Meet as either a sanctioned or approved meet (it was not clear which) on November 19, 2005. PVS had requested more information in order to make a decision, which it was still awaiting.

    Competition did not take a position on this bid and indicated it was confident that the Board would exercise its best judgment on this matter.

    Various reports were provided to Competition including

    Eastern Zone Age Group Chair Report -- Ward Foley Ward gave report including the new IMX program to encourage swimmers to try all strokes and swim the longer distances, see in SWIMS how they are doing relative to their peers, etc. LSC's are being encouraged to conduct local IMX types of meets. It is designed to encourage swimmers to diversify amongst strokes and swim the longer distances.

    He also noted the ability of each swimmer to develop their own webpage and provided material on membership trends and Top 16 trends.

    He indicated there has been discussion on what does age group swimming success mean - does it only mean making nationals or is future academic/professional success am equally important measure of accomplishment.

    It was stated that the biggest failure of our coaches - not educating our parents on how to support their children in a competitive swim program. He stated USA Swimming is developing material to help USA Swimming coaches to do this as well as a parent's handbook It also covers what one should expect when going to meet as well as how to prepare to be successful at a meet. Example of material (talking points) that a coach could select from for a specific presentation were made available.

    Senior Chair Report - Don Riedlinger -- Don noted that the time standards for various USA Swimming national level meets were now available, the summer "national" meet will be a selection meet for several international teams. It has not been decided yet if this will be 4 or 5 day meet.

    Junior Championship (as this year) will be right after it - both meets will be in Irvine, CA. Relay only swimmers will be permitted to time trial this year. The QT's for Men's 100 Breast and Men's and Women's 400 Free Relay have been revised from last year.

    The three national open water meets (5K, 10K, and 25K) will be June 2-6 in Ft Myers.

    Coaches Representative - Bill Marlin -- Bill provided a written report which is attached. He reviewed highlights from the various sessions he attended while at the recently completed USA-S convention.

    He highlighted that the percent of males in age group swimming is up and that only about 65% of our registered swimmers ever compete in a sanctioned meet for time.

    He noted that USA Swimming is encouraging clubs to complete their on-line club profiles - he indicated it should take about 90 minutes to complete.

    For age group swimming, he talked about using new formats to make it more interesting, have unusual events, add a social event after the meet etc to add variety.

    He mentioned the Full Body Analysis of Swimming Techniques which studies the dynamics of a swimmer's body in water as they do different strokes, different stroke amplitudes and frequency - what works best for various body types, etc..

    It was also announced that Dave Kraft had been selected as the ASCA Age Group Coach of Year for PVS. He had attended the annual convention just after Labor Day and was recognized for his selection.

    General Chairman - Jim Garner -- Garner announced that USA-S had adopted a policy related to Hurricane Katrinia relief. It has also relaxed the 120-day transfer rule for athletes who had to change teams as a result of the hurricane. Jim also indicated that there are some clubs in PV that are supporting those swimmers at no charge to the family.

    Registration -- Bill Stephens --- Bill announced that there was not going to be a club registrar's clinic this September as there had been for the past two years. There are no new registration requirements to implement and the clubs in PVS are doing it right. If a new club comes into PVS or a club needs a new registrar trained, Sumie will do it on a one on one basis.

    He also noted PVS registration was up about 14% this past year (nationally it was up about 7%) and that we have about 45% male swimmers as contrasted with a national average of about 40% -- suggesting we are doing a better job of recruiting/retaining males in swimming.

    Athlete Selection Requirements for PVS 2006 SC Zone Team -- The Competition Committee discussed the criteria for being on the SC Zone team. It was initially proposed that the criteria be established in the same manner as was done in 2005.

    Accordingly, a motion was made and seconded that the team be selected based on the two fastest times (limited to those swimmers eligible to represent PVS on the zone team and who apply to be on the team.) The selection period would start September 1, 2005 and end for 15-18 athletes at the conclusion of PVS Senior Champs (March 12, 2006) and end for 14/Under athletes at the conclusion of PVS 14/U Age Group JO Champs (March 19, 2006.)

    A proposal was made that PVS pick one swimmer in each event based on the fastest time through December 31, 2005 and the other through the above dates. It was noted that this would permit this swimmer to concentrate on swimming fast at zones - rather than qualifying for the team in the spring. Others noted that the swimmer might become too fast in the interim and lose their eligibility to be on the zone team. It was suggested this might work well for the 15-18 year old swimmers - but not the younger age brackets. It was also noted that almost all our younger swimmers make the zone team based on times from the 14/U Champs - rather than other meets earlier in the season. Having two slots still open at 14/U Champs makes the finals of this meet more exciting than if only one slot is still available.

    Others proposed that the selection come from only the 14/U Champs meet - therefore times from earlier meets should not count. That is how selection of many international teams is conducted by USA Swimming.

    A motion was made and seconded to amend the proposed selection criteria to have one athlete selected based on the best time from prior to December 31. 2005. The MOTION FAILED 1-12.

    A vote was then taken on the main motion - it PASSED on a voice vote.

    Participation Requirements for Receiving Travel Assistance - The meet participation requirements to receive PVS travel assistance were reviewed and Competition made the following recommendations No changes from 2005 were proposed.

    • USA Swimming 2006 Spring Championships - 9 swims in PVS sanctioned meets - at least 6 of which must be in PVS sponsored meets - after 9/1/05 and prior to date of meet.
    • USA Swimming 2006 National Team Trials -- 4 swims in PVS sanctioned meets - at least 2 of which must be in PVS sponsored meets - after 4/15/06 and prior to date of meet.
    • USA Swimming 2006 Junior Championships-- 4 swims in PVS sanctioned meets - at least 2 of which must be in PVS sponsored meets - after 4/15/06 and prior to date of meet.
    • 2006 US Paralympics National Championships-- 4 swims in PVS sanctioned meets - at least 2 of which must be in PVS sponsored meets - after 4/15/06 and prior to date of meet.

    As in 2005, travel assistance will not be paid on behalf of the same athlete to both USA Swimming 2006 National Team Trials and USA Swimming 2006 Junior Championships.

    Some asked if this was not already covered in P&P - that however addresses a different situation when USA Swimming Junior Championships was before the National Championship.

    Greg York reminded Competition on behalf of Linda Klopfenstein that if a request for travel assistance is not filed timely (within 30 days), it must be filed as an appeal. Also, participation requirements must come from PVS sanctioned meets - MCSL Coaches All Stars and the 2005 Suit-Up Invitational Northern Virginia Special Olympics Swimming Meets do not count.

    Report on PVS 2005 Eastern Zone LC Team - Paris Jacobs provided a written report to Competition regarding the 2005 LC meet. (The report is attached).

    She noted the new requirement to travel and participate as a team were in effect for the 2005 LC Season. Changes in the requirements and participation rules had occurred throughout the Spring and the Board had reduced the cost of participating on the team from $590 to $500 in late July. PVS's participation had dropped to 61 athletes and PVS finished 9th this year - after finishing 4th in 2004. (It was reported two athletes joined the meet when the fee was dropped.)

    Paris urged Competition to make a recommendation regarding the 2006 PVS LC team now and that the Board then act on it at its next meeting. She felt a significant problem this summer was how late many families of potential zone team swimmers learned of the new requirements. As a result, it was suggested the new concept did not get a "fair shake."

    Hirschmann explained that in approving the PVS 2006 budget, the House of Delegates approved an LSC subsidy for the PVS 2006 LC Zone team of $15,000. The House has historically taken an interest in this amount and also the level of financial support provided the Zone team versus travel assistance to USA National Championship level meets. Questions were asked whether a greater subsidy for the zone team from the LSC should be sought. Others expressed the view that supporting the zone team was not a good use of LSC resources.

    It was stated that those who participated on the zone team this year viewed it as a positive experience. Team size was hurt by the late announcement to the general PVS swimming community of how the team would be organized this year and in particular the requirement to travel to/from the meet with the team and be there the entire length of the meet. They felt it was the time commitment (and the late notice) not the cost that was the key factor that kept many swimmers from participating.

    The coaches reported that when athletes traveled on their own to the meet, many reported it was not a positive experience, in contrast this year with the team being much smaller, many reported that had a positive experience. They felt traveling as a team and being in a team environment were an important part of this.

    Many were anxious to try it for one more year - they felt the lateness of when the changes were generally known and the changes in eligibility that were made in May and fees in July made last summer not a fair test of the new concept. They agreed that if we had only about 60 swimmers for a second summer, we should not continue it for a third year. Having it known approximately 9 months prior how the team would be selected and travel/participate was important to having a valid test of the concept.

    Other raised questions as to what was PVS's purpose in having a LC Zone team - is it to win the meet, build the base or interest in LC swimming, expose swimmers to the experience of traveling as a team with perhaps different coaches, etc. Is the meet to be a stepping stone to prepare swimmers for higher level All-Star meets. If was felt if we were clearer on what was the purpose of the zone team, the answer to whether to travel as a team would be become clearer.

    It was noted that our younger swimmers did very well in this environment, our older swimmers (13+) did not and we had only about 3 15-18 year olds on the trip.

    It was also suggested that club coach support for the meet in terms of coaches encouraging swimmers to try and qualify for the team and if they do - participating was important to the ultimate success of the team. It was noted some coaches were in favor of the team concept, but that very few of their athletes who qualified participated on the team.

    A motion to made and seconded to stay with team concept for 2006 PVS LC Zone Team - it would operate under the same basic set of rules as it did in 2005. It was suggested (but not made part of the formal motion) that we might want to give the zone coordinator more authority to make exceptions - i. e., permit swimmers to meet the team there. It was noted that swimmers upon request were dismissed from the team upon completion of the team banquet on Saturday night. .

    The motion PASSED 12-1. Competition was reminded of the parliamentary rules that would apply to requesting reconsideration of a motion.

    Status of Joint Senior LC Championship Meet with VSI - Don Riedlinger -- The proposal that had been under consideration for the past several months was to try to conduct two joint (PVS and VSI) senior LC championship level meets in a prelim/finals format. There would have been both a lower and upper level LC championship meet - since one meet cannot handle all the athletes that currently attend the combination of the current PV and VSI Senior LC Championship Meets. One pool in PVS territory had been reserved by VSI for such a meet, had the LSCs' decided to proceed. Don however reported that only one club in VSI was in favor of the proposal and accordingly no further active planning is now happening. Don indicated he will try to retain an open dialogue with VSI to see if it is possible to plan some sort of joint competition in the future.

    Swimposium -- Greg reminded people that the PVS Swimposium is next Sunday (October 2) at GMU - Fairfax. Greg noted that over 200 people are expected to attend. Paris has received many compliments from USA Swimming for putting together such a successful Swimposium.

    Given the number of registrations received and the fact material has been reproduced based on those numbers, Paris indicated it was no longer practical to plan to take new registrations that day. She noted the final deadline for registrations had been September 5th. She has continued to accept applications since then, but now needs to cut it off now.

    USA-S Stroke Rule Changes -- Riedlinger briefed the Competition Committee on the rule changes pertaining to breaststroke and backstroke that went into effect on September 21, 2005. Copies of the rule changes (including interpretations provided by Bruce Stratton; Chairman, USA Swimming Rules and Regulations Committee) were provided at the meeting and have been posted to the PVS website.

    Don emphasized that he thought the coaches should concentrate on the interpretation of rule since he felt the actual wording adopted by FINA is subject to more than one interpretation. USA-S has adopted for breaststroke the same wording in their rulebook as in the FINA rulebook.

    The guidance now being given is based on conversations by key members of the USA Swimming community with members of the FINA Technical Committee. Don also noted the rule may be subject to further clarification as the FINA Technical Committee is scheduled to meet on October 14th.

    Old Business -- Manga Dalizu distributed his proposal (attached) on what he thought should be expected of a PVS club in order to retain its standing in PVS as a club in good standing. Manga noted that when there is no penalty for not doing something, there is a greater tendency for clubs to ignore the requirement and not comply. He asked the body to give the matter consideration for discussion at a future meeting.

    Competition suggested this was an item that it was more appropriate for the Board of Directors to address than for Competition.

    Others noted that USA Swimming is starting a club recognition program - for instance a club needs 10 officials to achieve the highest level of recognition. It is not clear now effective an incentive this will be in addressing some of the concerns Manga was raising..

    It was also observed that some clubs do not host meets, but still complain about how the meets are conducted.

    It was agreed that Manga's proposal could be distributed via Flash Mail and clubs invited to send their comments to Manga. It was suggested that after people have had a time to comment, Manga should be invited to the Board meeting at which this proposal would be placed on the agenda to be discussed.

    His proposal will also be attached to the minutes of this meeting.

    8/U Championship Meet -- Stephens noted that PVS does not sponsor a championship meet for all our 8/U swimmers and inquired whether we should - given what a significant percentage and number of our registered athletes they represent.

    It was noted that several years ago, there was a single LSC championship meet for all 8/U athletes in PVS. This ended when PVS stopped sponsoring many of the meets on its calendar and let the club sponsor those meets as well. There was no longer a prohibition against more than one club conducting a club sponsored meets for 8/U athletes on the same weekend.

    The PVS championship meet when it had been held had no QT's. Questions were raised whether given the current size of the 8/U program - whether one site could host such a championship.

    Many expressed the view that we are already enough competitive opportunities for our 8/U athletes. Others were not sure it was in the best interest of our 8/U athletes to have such a championship or if held, have one that would need to QT's to limit entries.

    Some clubs are also objecting to have to travel as far as Olney for such a championship.

    Next Meeting Date - The date for the next meeting was not set. The date, time and place will be determined by the chairman and announced.

    Adjournment -- The meeting adjourned at 7:45pm